Running a Server and Playing on The Same Computer

[egor1908]

(01-20-2010, 08:59 AM)Beaverbeliever Wrote:  I would say this statement is false. I mean, how is there a RIGHT way to host on the same computer? The whole act is wrong in itself. The RIGHT way is to get another server box that is capable of running the server you want, and keeping it separate.

i mean that if you know exacly how to host on same machine, you will not get any problems.

There are some problems but they are related to steam (like steam id auth etc.).

The only thing you have to mention - install a server using hlds, and not steam. Because running a server on your game client is lame.

[DREAD_XI]

<Mod Edit>
No reason to flame someone. Especially with no basis or argument.
</>

Solution 1: Learn your capability's and run a server that you will enjoy with your friends or...
Solution 2: It's ok to buy a game server from a game server provider! (Or a Beaver whichever comes first)
That is what I was missing. Sorry I get it now. I did not notice as I was here for help.
Maybe I need some lithium for the mood this guy puts me in with his misguided advertising.

[EDIT] My argument was that I (feel) that this thread was to sway people to pay for a host and that host is in the sig of the thread creator.
Or that it would be convenient to read this take it to heart and happen across his link in sig and send money for a server that with guidance could be hosted by the potential customer and be sufficient for there personal needs. For FREE ! I would just ask the questions of there internet and hardware limits and give advice reflecting just that. I believe that if you have decent internet and an ok computer there is no need to spend money monthly on a server that you could build and test even with just 2 slots and discover if you really want to spend that money.

Sorry for any misunderstandings.

[Beaverbeliever]

I don't think you understand this Dread. It has only been of recent I got this game server company up. I did not have it up when this thread was created. And no, if you have the resources to run it from home (extra computer, good bandwidth) I believe you should do it.

Second of all, by you with 12 posts coming in here and insulting everyone that tries to help you, you are delaying the cause and intentions that we are all trying to put into this forum.

I personally hope you are banned from this forum, because you are a very ungrateful troller.

[DREAD_XI]

(01-21-2010, 12:54 AM)Beaverbeliever Wrote:  I don't think you understand this Dread. It has only been of recent I got this game server company up. I did not have it up when this thread was created. And no, if you have the resources to run it from home (extra computer, good bandwidth) I believe you should do it.

Second of all, by you with 12 posts coming in here and insulting everyone that tries to help you, you are delaying the cause and intentions that we are all trying to put into this forum.

I personally hope you are banned from this forum, because you are a very ungrateful troller.

Fine I did not come in this forum for you to make me try so hard to explain a simple problem. It was only my opinion that your thread was bias. I have however expressed my grief maybe to strongly... But you have given me this grief by not listening to my post talking to me like I have no Idea what is going on and believing that you should confuse my problem in another thread. I do believe that you made the right decision in agreeing that you can host on your personal and any other machine. If done right. I apologize for my post but I am very frustrated at how hard it is to get you to understand my problem. I also take full responsibility for any and all of my actions. Right or Wrong. I will react if I feel insulted my self.

[superjuicebox2]

I'm sorry but i don't see how Dread is a troll, and he didn't really insult anyone. It seems like you're the one attacking him beaver. I think it would be fine to run a server off of the same comp. that you are using to play as long as you have the right resources. My house would be a good example, because i have business internet (t1 not shared). Just because you're in a residential area doesn't mean that you have slow internet

[loopyman]

(04-26-2010, 10:29 AM)superjuicebox2 Wrote:  I'm sorry but i don't see how Dread is a troll, and he didn't really insult anyone. It seems like you're the one attacking him beaver. I think it would be fine to run a server off of the same comp. that you are using to play as long as you have the right resources. My house would be a good example, because i have business internet (t1 not shared). Just because you're in a residential area doesn't mean that you have slow internet

Last I checked... T1's move a whopping 1.5Mbps up/down... My offices cable is faster than that
The issue doesn't only lie with speed of home connections but their latencies to other home connections.
Home connections are designed to quickly community with servers and not other homes.

[willpower101]

Fist off:
Beaver, don't get so tense about the topic. A lot has changed in the last year. It's both possible and and ok to run a dedicated server on the same computer you are playing on. Why not update the first page to reflect the changes?

Second:
People keep bringing up bandwidth vs computer power. These are two completely opposing topics having to do with playing on the same computer you are serving from. If you want to discuss bandwidth, then maybe another thread is in order? Simply put, if you don't have the UPLOAD, don't run a server. Anyone with half a brain can figure out the requirements.

I'd also like to point out the fact that youtube, or any other site, uses little to none of your upload speed. Usually none. Your download speed is not going to affect your players. Just your upload speed. You can download a giant service pack on your server and not see a change in lag.

Third:
Running a server doesn't take that much power. Adding on a client on the same computer is just a bit more. A quad core, or even a fast dual core can handle this. Open your task manager, dedicate your 1st two cores to your server, and your second two to your client, and make sure the server runs highest priority mode. This works perfectly fine on any decent system.

Now add back in the previously discussed bandwidth requirements, and you are up and running. There's absolutely no reason for anyone with a decent system to bother setting up an entire second machine.


Some counter points:

(05-28-2009, 05:33 AM)realchamp Wrote:  However! If it only are on LAN, then no problem

As I said above, network speeds have nothing to do with if you should be running the client and the server together. As long as you meet the minimum bandwidth, you are fine.

(01-19-2010, 10:11 AM)Beaverbeliever Wrote:  This guide was made for underlying problems in the basic functionality of the server and game being hosted on the same machine....
...and say "my computer is so awesome this shouldn't be a problem", but the limits of this still applies to you. ...or lag when someone opens YouTube in the house.

Youtube ...doesn't work that way man.
What limits are you talking about? What 'underlying functionality/problems'?
Also, what guide? This isn't really that much of a guide.
It reads,
"Don't run a client and server on the same machine. A. run a listen (yeah right) B. Buy server space. kthxbai."

I'm just stating some facts. I expected to see some facts about configuration when clicking this "sticky", not a bunch of bickering over subjective and/or anecdotal evidence.

[Beaverbeliever]

The point is saying its not possible, the point is saying its highly not recommended. Of course there is people who will do it, and I am just notifying the people who don't know about CPU and bandwidth requirements.

Also keep in mind I am talking about long termed and highly used servers, not 2 slot Gmod servers being put up for a few hours just to play around on.

I also am not quite sure why people are so scared about renting a server. It really is the most used choice for most new clans and most people who do not have the proper resources or knowledge to do it.

Also my comment on YouTube was merely a loose example on the use of your connection and how it can affect the servers performance.

[willpower101]

(05-20-2010, 01:19 PM)Beaverbeliever Wrote:  I also am not quite sure why people are so scared about renting a server. It really is the most used choice for most new clans and most people who do not have the proper resources or knowledge to do it.

Also my comment on YouTube was merely a loose example on the use of your connection and how it can affect the servers performance.

Roger about youtube. It's true that renting a server really is the bees knees, and it's not that expensive either. Most people just don't want to add on an extra monthly payment when they can do a mediocre job at home. It's really the isp's huge bandwith push that's made that more viable recently.

[realchamp]

(05-20-2010, 01:05 PM)willpower101 Wrote:  Fist off:
Beaver, don't get so tense about the topic. A lot has changed in the last year. It's both possible and and ok to run a dedicated server on the same computer you are playing on. Why not update the first page to reflect the changes?

Second:
People keep bringing up bandwidth vs computer power. These are two completely opposing topics having to do with playing on the same computer you are serving from. If you want to discuss bandwidth, then maybe another thread is in order? Simply put, if you don't have the UPLOAD, don't run a server. Anyone with half a brain can figure out the requirements.

I'd also like to point out the fact that youtube, or any other site, uses little to none of your upload speed. Usually none. Your download speed is not going to affect your players. Just your upload speed. You can download a giant service pack on your server and not see a change in lag.

Third:
Running a server doesn't take that much power. Adding on a client on the same computer is just a bit more. A quad core, or even a fast dual core can handle this. Open your task manager, dedicate your 1st two cores to your server, and your second two to your client, and make sure the server runs highest priority mode. This works perfectly fine on any decent system.

Now add back in the previously discussed bandwidth requirements, and you are up and running. There's absolutely no reason for anyone with a decent system to bother setting up an entire second machine.


Some counter points:

(05-28-2009, 05:33 AM)realchamp Wrote:  However! If it only are on LAN, then no problem

As I said above, network speeds have nothing to do with if you should be running the client and the server together. As long as you meet the minimum bandwidth, you are fine.

(01-19-2010, 10:11 AM)Beaverbeliever Wrote:  This guide was made for underlying problems in the basic functionality of the server and game being hosted on the same machine....
...and say "my computer is so awesome this shouldn't be a problem", but the limits of this still applies to you. ...or lag when someone opens YouTube in the house.

Youtube ...doesn't work that way man.
What limits are you talking about? What 'underlying functionality/problems'?
Also, what guide? This isn't really that much of a guide.
It reads,
"Don't run a client and server on the same machine. A. run a listen (yeah right) B. Buy server space. kthxbai."

I'm just stating some facts. I expected to see some facts about configuration when clicking this "sticky", not a bunch of bickering over subjective and/or anecdotal evidence.

I don't meet the minimum requirements, but I'm still fine
66tick @ 50000rate @ 16slots DM on a 2mbit up. just fine.

[Spartanfrog]

Plus don't forget that many Cable ISP's have nodes shared out to an entire neighborhood or more thus at high-use times, you hardly get the speeds advertised.

[willpower101]

@realchamp - Exactly. on the speed side of things, I have 3.5 mbps up, sustained, 5mbps burst, and 15 down. that's just the basic comcast package in nashville. and works great.

@Spartanfrog - again when and where does such a generalization apply? I don't have a problem sustaining advertised speeds with up to date hardware. I'm probably the heaviest user in my area most the time too. (transfers to and from my web sever of nearly 300 gb's a month)

[Spartanfrog]

Is it alright then to generalize that since YOU are able to sustain advertised speeds, that everyone can? "Up to date" hardware would also not be a factor as, like you said before, there two separate entities. It is common knowledge that many cable companies throttle your internet connection. Cablevision, Comcast, etc practice this.

[willpower101]

What I meant to say by 'up to date hardware' is a Docsis 3.0 cable modem.
A lot of people don't have that and don't realize it's needed to fix a lot of issues, even if their previous speeds are doing ok. Nothing to do with the computer.

Anyway, like you say, like I said before, you are correct, the internet speed and computer are really two separate things. I was just pointing out that if you can sustain good speeds, then it's a non-issue. I'm sure some people have problems with it. Maybe they shouldn't be running servers. But does that have anything to do with running the client on the same machine? So I don't see the point of debating speed.

I don't know if it's changed, but last time I had a server set up cs source coudln't even take advantage of multiple cores. it was stuck on one. (not sure about srcds, or either now that it's two years later) The proposed idea in this thread is 'don't run a server and client on the same pc - why? - it's bad'. The reason my stance is so strong against it is because I've not seen any good evidence supporting that reason.

If the supposition is changed to 'don't run a client and a server on the same pc with a crappy connection' then ok, I get that.
But if that is the case, then why would running the client on the server matter? The client is 0 tick to the server that way. Then maybe the case should be 'Don't run a game server with a crappy connection'? That makes even more sense.

However, the side supporting the idea of the op continues to drift into the issue of how a home connection isn't ideal for a server, in some effort to justify why you shouldn't run the two together.

So let's just take the connection issue out of it. I go up to the itd department and gaming club at the local college and ask to leave my box up there to run a server on. Their fiber connection is a non-issue. Now can I boot up the client on the server? What becomes the qualification for good performance at this point? More simply, what are the MINIMUM requirements to run the serve at XX tickrate, coupled with the minimum requirements for running the client well.

--------------------------
An example answer, (likely not accurate and JUST an example), would go something like:
A 66tick server needs a single core from a 2.0ghz core 2 duo or Pentium D arch with 2gb of ram minimum to function flawlessly.
The client needs a single core from a minimum of a 2.4ghz core 2 duo along with 2gb of ram and a geforce 9600.
Thus a good starting point would be an E8000 series processor and 4gb's of ram to run both effectively. Don't forget to lock your cores.

(this is just and idea of a reccomendation and may not exclude this setup from performing similarly on lower hardware or maybe using a linux distro.)

[edit oh wow this got long quick. lol. sorry.]

[realchamp]

(05-21-2010, 05:35 AM)Spartanfrog Wrote:  Plus don't forget that many Cable ISP's have nodes shared out to an entire neighborhood or more thus at high-use times, you hardly get the speeds advertised.

That's true