questions about this 2 x quad core Nehalem build

[Trizik]

i'm planning to run 8-10 mostly 32 slot, mostly srcds/TF2 servers. the box will be in colo. i'm on a $1,500 budget so i'm only interested in spending where it's absolutely necessary.

the build i'm considering @ $1,300:

1U case w/ 520W PSU
dual socket LGA 1366 mobo
2 x Intel E5504 quad core 2.0GHz Gainestown/Nehalem (no HT) CPU
3 x 2GB DDR3 triple channel RAM
2 x 7200RPM 16MB cache RAID 0 hard drives
Windows Server 2003 64-bit

my concerns:

1) is a single core of the E5504 2.0GHz CPU powerful enough to run a 32 slot TF2 server (with some SM plugins) without lag?

2) does hyper-threading positively or negatively affect the performance of srcds? i ask because if there are benefits i'll just go for the E5520 2.26GHz w/ HT and Turbo-Boost. but i'm hesitant to going that route because in my past experience HT did more harm than good to srcds.

3) is 6GB triple channel RAM enough? for $100 more i can have a total of 9GB triple channel RAM. but i'm trying to save money!

4) 2 x 7200RPM 16MB cache RAID 0 or 1 x VelociRaptor 10000RPM 16MB cache or 1 x SSD?

5) how much bandwidth am i looking at for 8 full 32 slot servers? i'm guessing ~32Mbps total throughput because i heard that a full 32 slot server requires about 4Mbps. is that accurate?

6) are there issues with srcds on W2K3 64-bit?

[Largo Usagi]

@ q3 i would make sure what ever amount of ram you put in there that you use unbuffered ram, its much much better for servers.

[Trizik]

don't you mean buffered?

i'm going for unbuffered ECC anyway because it's cheaper and the mobo supports it

[Mooga]

(02-25-2010, 06:28 AM)Trizik Wrote:  1) is a single core of the E5504 2.0GHz CPU powerful enough to run a 32 slot TF2 server (with some SM plugins) without lag?

No. I would recommend closer to 3.0GHz per core for a 32-slot TF2 server.

(02-25-2010, 06:28 AM)Trizik Wrote:  2) does hyper-threading positively or negatively affect the performance of srcds? i ask because if there are benefits i'll just go for the E5520 2.26GHz w/ HT and Turbo-Boost. but i'm hesitant to going that route because in my past experience HT did more harm than good to srcds.

From my experience with an old P4 with HT, it helps a little bit, but nothing major.

(02-25-2010, 06:28 AM)Trizik Wrote:  3) is 6GB triple channel RAM enough? for $100 more i can have a total of 9GB triple channel RAM. but i'm trying to save money!

Ram isn't a big issues for SRCDS. 6GB is fine.

(02-25-2010, 06:28 AM)Trizik Wrote:  4) 2 x 7200RPM 16MB cache RAID 0 or 1 x VelociRaptor 10000RPM 16MB cache or 1 x SSD?

What ever is cheaper. I wouldn't go with a SSD because it's expensive and you'll probably need more space then a single, small SSD.

(02-25-2010, 06:28 AM)Trizik Wrote:  5) how much bandwidth am i looking at for 8 full 32 slot servers? i'm guessing ~32Mbps total throughput because i heard that a full 32 slot server requires about 4Mbps. is that accurate?

I think you'll need a fatter pipe.

(02-25-2010, 06:28 AM)Trizik Wrote:  6) are there issues with srcds on W2K3 64-bit?

I'm not sure but you're probably better off with 2k8 64-bit then 2k3.

[loopyman]

2.0 GHz is kinda low for what you want... At least 2.66 per core IMO

[skeletor]

just wanted to chime in and say 2k3 64bit windows should run fine with srcds. If you can get 2k8 it does run a lot better tho. If your gonna colo you may talk to the company your colo'ing with, they should be able to work your license into their mvls.

[Trizik]

thanks for the replies

do you guys realize that the 2.0GHz i'm referring to is based on the Nehalem architecture, which is supposedly more powerful than the Core 2 based Harpertown 2.33GHz? i looked at statistics from several srcds admins running Harpertown systems and they swear a 32 slot TF2 server will run fine on a single 2.33GHz core of that system. does anyone have statistics against their claims?

[Mooga]

Are these recent claims? TF2 is a resource hog. And as time goes on, TF2 servers seem to require more and more power.

[Trizik]

most of them are from a year or so ago but there is recent praising for full 32 slot TF2 servers on the Nehalem E5520 @ 2.26GHz

what quad core CPU do you recommend for full 32 slot TF2 servers?

[Mooga]

I actually don't have much experience running server on high-end CPUs. But I'd say over 2.4 a core would be best. Maybe 2.6 or 3.0.

[3choE]

(02-25-2010, 06:28 AM)Trizik Wrote:  i'm planning to run 8-10 mostly 32 slot...

Hi Trizik,

- CPU

(Just regarding Intel that is, because AMD has a different caching architecture)

I originally was going to get a desktop CPU to save $$, but I ended up getting 2x W3550 for my box.

Nehalem Xeon has one big advantage over the desktop version, that instead of a single QPI link, Xeon has 4. Therefore each core has direct access to a QPI link. How much that will help hosting SRCDS? I don't know yet, that's what I am going to find out with my box. So I have no idea rather a E5504 is sufficient or not, for hosting 32-slot TF2 per core.

About a year ago, the sweet spot for hosting 32-slot TF2, seemed to be Q6600, but from my personal experience, Q6600 can barely run a 32-slot TF2 per core, with the SourceMod plugins that I am using, which some of them are (besides the default ones from SourceMod):

- Advertisements
- HLXCE
- AutoChangeMap
- Round Triggers
- Web Shortcuts
- Advanced Client Redirect // Non-SQL
- gScramble
- DAF
- KAC w/ Socket
- Spray Tracer
- Quake Sounds -Revamped
- Equipments Manager
- Radio

I don't know how much system resources that those plugins are using (I can simply disable them to get an idea, but too lazy even for that), but I need them for my servers anyway.

Put aside the architecture for a moment, just talk about the raw speed, I personally would go for ~3.0 GHz.

My reason is, that nowaday it is hard to build up a decent player population with TF2 (I mostly play TF2, so not into hosting CS:S, or other Source games), so I might as well use my box, to host games like Red Dead Redemption, Brink, or whatever. Of course, those games aren't out yet, and we don't know what kind of multiplayer supports they will have. I am just using them to make my point about hosting other soon-to-be releases, than the current Source games.

---

- HDD

I have made a couple posts here, about my initial experience with the OCZ SSD for hosting SRCDS.

Let me make it clear first, that so far I don't see a significant improvement, of in-game performance, over a SATA 3.0Gb/s 7200RPM, nor I am going to suggest anyone to use SSD instead of SATA, until I have used it for long enough to make a fair comment.

I am using the OCZ 30GB SSD for my box, because:

- Somebody got to be a lab rat.
- Originally I was thinking to get 2x WD 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s, which was $111.98 (2x $55.99)
- For 1x WD 500GB, and 1x 30GB OCZ SSD, was $190.98 ($55.99 + $134.99), so $79 less for Starbucks (or I cut the tips... for one year)
- If not for testing, I would get a larger one than a 30GB (does it make sense? )

Another thing to think about, is that the currently TRIM doesn't help in case of overwriting an existing file, but again, I am not planning to use the SSD for 10 years.

---

- Chassis

In my opinion, one thing you should put more thought into, is the chassis (and the PSU). As ideally, your box is running ~365/24/7, so even though the latest CPU are much cooler than P4 (my three P4 machines started acting funny, all because the heat of the CPU was killing the nearby IC), you want to use a chassis with good ventilation.

That's why I was thinking about getting a Dell server, but it was too expensive for me.

---

All of my above suggestions are based on my own limited experience as a casual end-user, and suggestions I got from members of this forum , and the few other ones.

My suggestions are just something for you to think about, and you might have to confirm with the more knowledgeable people.

[Trizik]

thanks very much for your input, 3choE

please let me know how that new CPU and SSD work out for you, i am curious

thanks again

[SaintGTR]

If your running KAC make sure you turn off the eyewall.