3choE is buying new server needs input on the hardware

[3choE]

[ 02-11-2010 ]

Since my questions got split into this separate thread, I fixed my 1st post a little.

Below my original questions, I put a current summary, so other members who have the same need, don't have to read all the replies.

---

[ My original questions ]

lhffan,

I am trying to build my own server as well, and I hope you don't mind I drop my questions in your thread.

By the way, wow about your connection, you are rich.
---------------

1)
As this is my first box for co-location, and with little budget, I am going to build a box that is good enough for hosting just four TF2 32-slots servers, so probably I will have:

- ATX motherboard for Intel CPU
- 2 HDDs

For 2U chassis, I am thinking about either Antec or Super Micro. At Newegg.com, for 2U ATX Intel, I could only find the following one that matches my needs:

- Antec 2U22EPS460 (link)

Any suggestions?


2)
As mentioned, my box isn't going to be a high-end one, so I will probably just use two SATA 3.0 Gb/s HDDs, like the the WD5000AAKS (link), which is cheap for $55.99/ea.

Yet I have been wondering how much a fast HDD would affect the performance, consider when lots of caching going on, like during the change of map. Therefore I am thinking about getting a HDD like the Intel X25-M (link).

(80 GB for $299.99, or 160 GB for $549.00, thus if I use SDD, I would get two 80 GB)

For those fellows hosting 4+ servers on a single box, how does the typical SATA HDD perform?


Thanks.

---

[ Current status, as of 02-11-2010 ]

< My need, for now >
1)
Per box, I want to have enough juice for hosting:

- 4x 32-slot TF2 servers @ max settings, with 30+ SourceMod plugins (including those default ones).
- have a little more juice, in case I host some other games instead of the current ones (TF2, L4D2, and etc.)


< Rack chassis >
1)
So the first thing to decide was which rack unit to use. 1U, 2U, or 4U?

I checked my current choices of co-location provider Ubiquity (link) and PacificRack (link), as well as few others. Price-wise, it seems to be safer to go with 1U-2U, as I have seen so far, many providers are charging more for the 4U (unless you have enough boxes to ask for bargain).


2)
Other considerations:

- Besides the wattage, how is the quality of the bundled PSU?
- Does it have issues mounting the motherboard? (backpanel, E-ATX, ATX, and etc.)



< Single or dual CPU >
1)
Q6600 used to be the sweet spot for hosting TF2, each core was able to handle 24-slot nicely, and was still fine with 32-slot, but after all the updates and the growing list of needed plugins, Q6600 isn't that good of a choice anymore.


2)
At first I was thinking about building a box with single CPU, as I mentioned in the above, I mainly want to host 4x 32-slot TF with it.

Yet after some consideration, dual CPU is a better choice, as I only have to pay a little more for an extra CPU and for the dual CPU motherboard. It would cost me a lot more if building two separate boxes, as well as renting an extra rack space.



< My shopping list, for now >
1)
After reading the suggestions in this thread, here is my current shopping list (@ Newegg.com):

Code:

- Rack chassis:           SUPERMICRO CSE-822T-400LPB            // $239.99
- Motherboard:            Intel S5520HC                      // $499.99
- CPU:                    2x Intel W3550 Bloomfield 3.066GHz    // $1199.98 (2x $599.99)
- RAM:                    Crucial 6GB kit (2GB x3)             // $284.99
- HDD:                    2x WD 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s             // $111.98 (2x $55.99)

Thus the total is $2336.93.

(My ideal budget for a single CPU box is $1200, and $1500 max, so I am way over my budget. Since it is a dual CPU setup, I guess it is reasonable.)

(Then I can't buy myself a new computer for all the new games, like Red Dead Redemption, Brink, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, ...)


2)
For the CPU, I was looking at the Intel W3520 2.66GHz, which is $309.99. Compare to W3550, it would save me $580.


3)
I finally got to try out an OCZ SSD. Didn't install OS on it, as I just wanted to run a quick test.

I tested it with the following:

- Windows 2008 R2 (OS HDD was WD 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s)
- 8x 32-slot TF2 (koth_sawmill, 30 bots)

and the result (from that quick test), I have to say:

It's the best thing since Victoria's Secret (link)!!

It didn't help the in game performance that much, but the benefit really showed when multiple instances of SRCDS were changing maps, which didn't affect the running SRCDS at all.

I might throw in a 30GB OCZ SSD ($134.99) for some extended testing. If so, I would post the result later on.


4)
The following are the parts that I was looking at:

- (link) SUPERMICRO CSE-822I-400LPB
- (link) SUPERMICRO CSE-822T-400LPB
- (link) Antec 2U22EPS460
- (link) Crucial 6GB kit (2GB x3)
- (link) Intel Xeon W3520 Bloomfield 2.66GHz
- (link) Intel Xeon W3550 Bloomfield 3.066GHz
- (link) OCZ 30GB SATA II SSD
- (link) Intel S5520HC
- (link) WD 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s

[Mooga]

Split

[Spartanfrog]

I would spend more money on more critical components like the CPU rather than the hard drive. Sure, a fast hard drive would would increase map loading times but I think if you spent the same money improving the CPU rather than the hard drive, you would get better performance.

[lol554]

In my company, we are using our own custom-builded servers. Chieftec is good at rack-cabinets (http://www.chieftec.eu)

Also, AMD Phenom II can be recommended as CPU, and Samsung F1 as harddrive

Remember to configure Raid 1 on the server (makes data safe)

[BehaartesEtwas]

One hard drive will be enough, if you make some backup e.g. to your home pc. The hard drive speed is not critical, it will only slightly reduce map change times. I would recommend one single standard SATA drive (size doesn't really matter, they are all big enough).

If you want to run 4 servers, I would recommend at least 2, better 4 cores. Don't take AMD cpus, they are not so good for game servers. If the budget allows it, I would recommend an i5 750.

If you don't run much else, 2 GB of RAM will be enough.

[lol554]

(02-08-2010, 06:49 PM)BehaartesEtwas Wrote:  One hard drive will be enough, if you make some backup e.g. to your home pc. The hard drive speed is not critical, it will only slightly reduce map change times. I would recommend one single standard SATA drive (size doesn't really matter, they are all big enough).

If you want to run 4 servers, I would recommend at least 2, better 4 cores. Don't take AMD cpus, they are not so good for game servers. If the budget allows it, I would recommend an i5 750.

If you don't run much else, 2 GB of RAM will be enough.

AMD CPU's are excellent for gamehosting. Why should Intel CPU's be better than AMD?

[lhffan]

For my connection i pay aprox 50 usd per month.. I have no idea what chassie to buy. But that one you have choosed looks ok.

[ilinx]

(02-08-2010, 07:37 PM)lol554 Wrote:  

(02-08-2010, 06:49 PM)BehaartesEtwas Wrote:  One hard drive will be enough, if you make some backup e.g. to your home pc. The hard drive speed is not critical, it will only slightly reduce map change times. I would recommend one single standard SATA drive (size doesn't really matter, they are all big enough).

If you want to run 4 servers, I would recommend at least 2, better 4 cores. Don't take AMD cpus, they are not so good for game servers. If the budget allows it, I would recommend an i5 750.

If you don't run much else, 2 GB of RAM will be enough.

AMD CPU's are excellent for gamehosting. Why should Intel CPU's be better than AMD?

AMD generally has slower bus speeds and lower cache sizes than Intel, game servers require more of both.

AMD generally fails at performing multiple tasks, sure, you may be able to play Grand Theft Auto IV on the latest Phenom, but how it will perform when you run 4 full TF2 servers on the latest Nehalem based processor?

[loopyman]

I can sell you a Q8300 with 4GB RAM and 320GB HD for $410 in a desktop case, Will also include free month of Colo in my KC facility. (1.5TB on 100mbps)
If you want it in a 2U rackmount case, I can do that as well for $470, and will include a free month of Colo in KC.
I can host you in Montreal for $65 per month, or Portland Oregon for $50, the only DC I can offer the free month is in Kansas City.

For hosting 4x 32slot TF2 servers the Q8300 would vary. It would work out just fine if each was was running 256FPS, it would preform just fine... IF you wanted to run 1000fps servers then you might consider a nicer processor.

[lol554]

(02-10-2010, 12:53 PM)ilinx Wrote:  

(02-08-2010, 07:37 PM)lol554 Wrote:  

(02-08-2010, 06:49 PM)BehaartesEtwas Wrote:  One hard drive will be enough, if you make some backup e.g. to your home pc. The hard drive speed is not critical, it will only slightly reduce map change times. I would recommend one single standard SATA drive (size doesn't really matter, they are all big enough).

If you want to run 4 servers, I would recommend at least 2, better 4 cores. Don't take AMD cpus, they are not so good for game servers. If the budget allows it, I would recommend an i5 750.

If you don't run much else, 2 GB of RAM will be enough.

AMD CPU's are excellent for gamehosting. Why should Intel CPU's be better than AMD?

AMD generally has slower bus speeds and lower cache sizes than Intel, game servers require more of both.

AMD generally fails at performing multiple tasks, sure, you may be able to play Grand Theft Auto IV on the latest Phenom, but how it will perform when you run 4 full TF2 servers on the latest Nehalem based processor?

AMD maybe has a little bit lower cache, but their bus-speeds are way much higher. Many Nehalems runs at 1333 mhz bus, while Phenom's are running with 2600 mhz bus

[3choE]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I have been busy studying for my exams and couldn't check back this thread sooner.

Since my questions got split into a separate thread, I fixed my 1st post a little, so other members who have the same need, don't have to read all the replies.

---

Quote:lhffan:

For my connection i pay aprox 50 usd per month.. I have no idea what chassie to buy. But that one you have choosed looks ok.

Rack chassis costs a lot more than tower case, but as I have seen so far, in general, hosting charges much more for housing a 4U.

---

Quote:loopyman:

I can sell you a Q8300 with 4GB RAM...

loopyman,

Thanks for your reply.

1)
The one I mention in this thread, is for hosting in Los Angeles.

Since my friend is paying half of the cost, and he will be using it for stuffs besides SRCDS hosting, I have to consider his needs.


2)
Yet I am very interested in your offer for my own hosting need (in Central, which I host it alone), but I have to get back to you next month.

Since Limestone made some efforts in fixing my previous issues (which caused by them actually), I am staying with them for this month to see how things go (plus I don't want to change server IPs again...).

But your offer sounds really good.

Regarding the CPU, how is the Q8300 (4MB L2) compared to Q6600 (2 x 4MB L2)?


3)
By the way, I read your reply to ilinx's thread (link) regarding the power consumption and the rack chassis, good things to know. Thank you.

Now I have to concern about the extra charge from the hosting for the power usage.

Also I am checking eBay for some cheap 2U, but I just never have good luck with eBay, so ever if I got a good deal on a 2U, I might still get a new PSU from newegg.com.

---

Quote:ilinx:

AMD generally has slower bus speeds and lower cache sizes than Intel, game servers require more of both.

ilinx, BehaartesEtwas, lol554,

My concern about hosting with AMD CPU, is the same as what ilinx has mentioned (mainly the cache size, as they are shared by 4 cores). Plus I had some bad experiences with the AMD combo, which were due to the chipsets of the motherboards.

Just checked the wiki, this Cache thing is getting confusing on paper (to me, as I haven't been following these stuffs):

< Intel >
- Kentsfield, L2 (2 x 4MB)
- Yorkfield-6M, L2 (2 x 2MB or 2 x 3MB)
- Bloomfield, L2 (4 x 256KB), L3 (8MB)

< AMD >
- Deneb, L2 (4 x 512KB), L3 (4 or 6MB)

[lol554]

A last option: take a look at Dell.com - they have some fine rackservers

[loopyman]

(02-11-2010, 08:32 PM)lol554 Wrote:  A last option: take a look at Dell.com - they have some fine rackservers

Blah, some of their rack servers are nice, but you probably want to go for a nice custom approach to keep from having to use dell specialized parts ( Psu, Mobo etc )